New Mexico In Focus | NM Cannabis Anniversary & Nuclear Disposal Decision Nears | Season 16 | Episode 43

FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS  LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW  MEXICO IN FOCUS, DUMPING GROUND DEADLINE APPROACHES.

A FEDERAL COMMISSION IS NEARING A DECISION THAT COULD  SEND THOUSANDS OF TONS OF NUCLEAR WASTE TO OUR STATE.

PLUS — >> WHEN YOU’RE ADDICTED YOU  NARROW LIKE YOUR VIEW OF THE WORLD AND BASICALLY YOUR LIFE  REVOLVES AROUND THAT.

>> Gene: REFRAMING MINDS, A  UNIVERSITY DOCTOR TELLS US HOW MDMA ASSISTED THERAPY IS  HELPING PATIENTS OVERCOME TRAUMA DRIVEN ADDICTION.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I’M YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

GOVERNOR MITCHELL LUJAN  GRISHAM IS DECLARING A STATE OF EMERGENCY IN SANDOVAL  COUNTY OVER A RUSH OF FLOODWATERS IN THE JEMEZ  RIVER.

IN ABOUT 25 MINUTES I ASK OUR  LINE OPINION PANEL IF THE OVERWHELMING SNOW SMELT  CAUSING THAT FLOODING COULD BRING LONG-TERM BENEFITS.

IN THE SECOND HALF OF TODAY’S SHOW, I SIT DOWN WITH  FILMMAKER BEHIND A NEW DOCUMENTARY ABOUT ROBERT  OPPENHEIMER.

WRITER AND CREATOR LARRY  SHEFFIELD EXPLAINS WHY HE WANTED TO FOCUS ON THE  PHYSICIANS’ LIFE AFTER HE CREATED THE ATOMIC BOMB.

THAT IS IN LESS THAN 40 MINUTES, BUT FIRST THE STATE’S  RECREATIONAL CANNABIS MARKET IS CELEBRATING ITS FIRST  BIRTHDAY THIS MONTH.

LET’S GET TO THE LINE.

WELCOME TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS FOR THE WEEK.

HAPPY TO BE JOINED IN PERSON IN OUR ALBUQUERQUE STUDIOS BY  ANDY LYMAN, A STAFF WRITER FOR THE SANTA FE REPORTER.

SHAUN GRISWOLD IS HERE, HE IS EDITOR AT SOURCE NEW MEXICO.

REALLY PLEASED TO HAVE FORMER STATE SENATOR DEDE FELDMAN  WITH US AGAIN AS WELL.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

THINGS ARE LOOKING GREEN FOR THE CANNABIS INDUSTRY HERE IN  NEW MEXICO.

IT HAS BEEN ONE YEAR SINCE  RECREATIONAL PRODUCTS HIT SHELVES ACROSS THE STATE  BRINGING IN MORE THAN 300 MILLION IN TAXABLE SALES  SINCE LAST APRIL.

NOW, ANDY, YOU WROTE SEVERAL  WONDERFUL STORIES FOR A SPECIAL ISSUE OF THE SANTA FE  REPORTER THIS WEEK EXAMINING TRENDS THAT HAVE EMERGED IN  THE YEAR SINCE LEGALIZATION.

YOU PROFILED A SMALL FAMILY  OWNED CANNABIS BUSINESS AND THEY VOICED A COMMON CONCERN  OF LATE OVER SATURATION IN THE MARKET.

I HEAR THIS A LOT FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT ANGLES.

WE’LL TALK ABOUT THIS.

YOUR TAKEAWAY ON THIS FIRST  BIT ABOUT OVERSATURATION.

TRUE, FALSE?

PEOPLE PROTECTING MARKETS?

>> Andy: I THINK IT IS SORT OF  A NATURAL CONSEQUENCE OR BENEFIT TO THE WAY THE STATE  HAS BEEN ISSUING LICENSES AND I THINK PART OF THE WAY THEY  HAVE BEEN ISSUING LICENSES, OR THE REASON THEY HAVE, IS SORT  OF HELPING PEOPLE THAT BASICALLY EVERYONE THAT WANTS  A LICENSE, THEY’LL HELP GET A LICENSE.

THE STATE, I MEAN.

PART OF THAT, AT LEAST THE  NOTION THERE, IS THAT IT IS PART OF THAT EQUITY THING,  LIKE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY WANTS A LICENSE GETS  ONE AND PUT EVERYONE ON AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD.

WHAT THAT CREATES OBVIOUSLY IS EVERYONE HAS A LICENSE,  EVERYONE CAN OPEN A RETAIL SPOT, ASSUMING THEY HIT THE  BENCHMARKS FOR THE CITIES THAT THEY ARE IN, BUT WHAT THAT  CREATES IS LIKE WHO IS GOING TO MAKE IT, WHO IS NOT?

IN SANTA FE, IT DOESN’T SEEM LIKE IT WOULD BE AS SATURATED.

IF YOU DRIVE AROUND ALBUQUERQUE, THEY ARE  EVERYWHERE.

>> Gene: IT IS UNBELIEVABLE.

>> Andy: PER CAPITA, SANTA FE IS RIGHT THERE.

IF YOU LOOK AT A MAP, SORRY, RLD, DIVISION OF LICENSING  DEPARTMENT, HAS A MAP OF THE WHOLE STATE WHERE YOU CAN SEE  WHERE ALL THE SHOPS ARE.

AND THEY ARE ALL JUST RIGHT  ALONG CERRILLOS.

THERE IS SORT OF A CLUSTER  DOWNTOWN SANTA FE AND THEN JUST ALL DOWN CERRILLOS UNTIL  YOU GET TO I-25.

>> Gene: WHAT ARE WE TALKING  ABOUT FOR CURRENTLY LICENSED FOLKS?

HOW MANY ARE THERE OUT THERE IN THE STATE RIGHT NOW?

>> Andy: ALTOGETHER LICENSES WAS SOMETHING LIKE 2,000.

I WANT TO SAY IT IS AROUND 400 AS FAR AS RETAIL SPOTS.

I COULD BE WRONG ON THAT.

>> Dede:   630 THEY SAID.

>> Andy: KEEP IN MIND THAT IS  LICENSES.

THAT DOESN’T NECESSARILY MEAN  THEY ARE OPEN.

SOME PEOPLE MIGHT BE IN THE  MIDDLE OF THEIR GROW TRYING TO GET THINGS READY, BUT THERE IS  A LOT OF LICENSES OUT THERE.

DIFFERENT KINDS.

>> Gene: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS EQUITY PROVISION.

ANDY, START WITH YOU.

INTERESTING LAWMAKERS  REPEATEDLY SAID WOULDN’T HAVE LEGALIZED CANNABIS WITHOUT AN  EQUITY PROVISION.

REMEMBER THOSE HEARINGS AND  JAVIER — THIS IS A BIG DEAL AND HAS THE  STATE DONE ENOUGH IN YOUR VIEW, SENATOR, TO MAKE SURE  COMMUNITIES AFFECTED BY THE WAR ON DRUG, THIS IS WHAT  OSTENSIBLY THE DEAL WAS, ARE WE GETTING TO SOME EQUITY  PLACE NOW IN YOUR VIEW?

>> Dede: IT IS HARD TO TELL  FROM MY POINT OF VIEW.

ANDY MAY KNOW THE ANSWER TO  THAT QUESTION.

BUT IT WAS — THIS PROVISION  WAS INTENDED TO ADDRESS THE RAVAGES BROUGHT ON BY THE WAR  ON DRUGS AND PEOPLE THAT SERVED TIME AND THE PEOPLE  WHOSE FAMILIES AND LIVES WERE REALLY DESTROYED UNNECESSARILY  BY THIS KIND OF UNJUST THING.

NOW, THE CRITERIA FOR GETTING  SORT OF SPECIAL PERMISSION UNDER THESE LICENSES IS PRETTY  BROAD.

I MEAN IT IS NOT — DOESN’T  JUST SEEM TO APPLY TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO WERE PREVIOUSLY  INCARCERATED OR ANYTHING.

IT IS PEOPLE WHO ARE LOW  INCOME, PEOPLE WHO ARE FROM A RURAL AREA.

>> Gene: THAT IS ALL IT TAKES.

>> Dede: PEOPLE OF CERTAIN  ETHNIC AND RACIAL — I THINK THAT MIGHT BE PRETTY HARD TO  ADMINISTER FOR THE REGULATION AND LICENSING AND IT MIGHT  TAKE A LOT OF TIME TO DO THAT.

I REALLY DON’T KNOW HOW THAT  IS GOING AND WHAT PERCENTAGE OF LICENSES ARE DUE TO THAT  PROVISION.

>> Goodbody: GOOD POINT.

EXCELLENT POINT.

SHAUN, AT SOURCE, GOT TO ASK,  CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE MADE NOISE ABOUT GOING BEYOND WHAT IS IN  STATE LAW TO ENSURE THAT EQUITY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT,  CREATING THE CANNABIS EQUITY WORKING GROUP IN 2021, BUT  ACCORDING TO REPORTING FROM YOUR SHOP, SOURCE NEW MEXICO,  THE CITY HASN’T RESPONDED TO A 21-PAGE RECOMMENDATION REPORT  SUBMITTED TO THE MAYOR’S OFFICE LAST SPRING.

THAT IS A WHOLE YEAR.

WHAT HAPPENED HERE?

WHAT IS GOING ON?

>> Shaun: YEAH, IT IS  INTERESTING.

THE REPORT WAS COMPILED BY  BLACK AND BROWN WOMEN THAT WORK THAT ARE CONTRACTED BY  THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE THROUGH THE CITY EQUITY OFFICE  REPORTED TO THE MAYOR’S.

SAT ON THE MAYOR’S DESK FOR 18  MONTHS AND MONDAY WAS THE FIRST TIME CITY COUNCILORS  WERE GIVEN A REVIEW OF THE ACTUAL REPORT.

THE REPORT DOES RECOMMEND, AS ANDY WAS DISCUSSING, OUTLINES  FOR HOW THE CITY CAN PROMOTE AND ENCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM  MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES TO RECEIVE BUSINESS LICENSES OR  GROWING LICENSES TO GET THEIR FOOT IN THE DOOR IN THE  INDUSTRY.

THERE IS EFFORTS ON  EXPUNGEMENT AND WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO DO TO GET THEIR RECORD  CLEARED, WHICH TO THE STATE LEGISLATURE’S CREDIT, THAT WAS  VERY INSTRUMENTAL IN LEGALIZING RECREATIONAL  CANNABIS WAS, WITHOUT THE PROVISION OF EXPUNGEMENT FOR  CRIMINAL RECORDS, THE STATE WASN’T GOING TO LEGALIZE  RECREATIONAL CANNABIS.

SO, TO THE STATE’S CREDIT,  THEY DO HAVE THAT BUILT IN BUT THERE IS STILL A CONCERN FROM  PEOPLE WHO HAVE THOSE RECORDS, WHAT IS THE PROCESS I NEED TO  DO?

HOW CAN HE ENSURE TO EMPLOYERS  THIS ISN’T ON MY RECORDS?

SO THE CITY HOPES TO PROVIDE  RESOURCES THAT ACTUALLY DOES OUTREACH TO INDIVIDUALS.

BUT THE OTHER QUESTION HERE TOO IS, AND I THINK THIS IS  HAPPENING ACROSS THE STATE WITH HOW MUCH MONEY — ALL THE  STATE — ALL THE TAX REVENUE THE STATE IS RECEIVING FROM  CANNABIS SALES AND RECREATIONAL CANNABIS SALES IS  GOING TO THE GENERAL FUND.

THIS EQUITY GROUP IS ALSO  REQUESTING MONEY NOT GO TO DIRECTLY TO THE GENERAL FUND  OR IF IT IS, A PORTION GO TO SOME OF THESE SERVICES THAT  NOT ONLY LET THEM BUILD BUSINESSES WITH SOME OF THESE  PEOPLE WHO ARE GENERALLY LEFT OUT OF THE INDUSTRIES, THE  EXPUNGEMENT PROCESS, BUT ALSO LOOKING AT SUBSTANCE USE  ISSUES AND PROVIDING MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT FOR INDIVIDUALS  WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH ADDICTION ISSUES.

>> Gene: BEFORE I GET TO YOU ON THIS, THIS IS AN  INTERESTING POINT.

MOVING MONEY INTO THE GENERAL  FUND.

>> Dede: THAT IS WHERE IT IS  GOING NOW.

IT IS GOING TO THE GENERAL  FUND NOW WITH, I GUESS, A PORTION OF THE TAX REVENUE  GOING TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

A THIRD OF IT OR SOMETHING.

SO, YEAH, I MEAN THIS IS ALWAYS A BIG ISSUE WITH NEW  REVENUE STREAMS.

SHOULD IT BE EARMARKED FOR A  CERTAIN PURPOSE THAT MIGHT BE RELATED TO THE ISSUE OR SHOULD  IT GO INTO THE GENERAL FUND WHERE LEGISLATORS HAVE  MORE AUTHORITY TO APPROPRIATE IT AND USE IT AS THEY SEE FIT.

SO, IT IS AN OLD STORY BUT IT CERTAINLY SEEMS TO ME THAT  THIS CRIES OUT FOR SOME SORT OF EAR MARKING.

>> Gene: AN INTERESTING POINT.

I WANT TO COME BACK TO THE EAR  MARKING.

ANDY, THE RECOMMENDATIONS IN  THAT REPORT INCLUDED FUNDING FOR CANNABIS SOCIAL EQUITY  PROGRAMS.

WE ALL KNOW ABOUT THAT.

REINVESTMENT OF CANNABIS TAX REVENUE, AS SENATOR MENTIONED,  EFFECTIVE ACCOUNTING OF ENVIRONMENTAL AND WATER  IMPACTS.

DURING THE RUN UP TO THIS, WE  HEARD A LOT ABOUT WATER IMPACTS, NOT SO MUCH NOW.

AND THE PUBLISHING OF CANNABIS RELATED ARRESTS AND CITATIONS  FROM APD.

THAT IS ACTUALLY VERY  INTERESTING.

[AGAIN THE NATURE OF THE  ARGUMENT HERE, GIVE US A SENSE OF WHAT IS THE PUSH AND PULL  HERE?

HOW FAR ARE PEOPLE WILLING TO  GO HERE?

>> Andy:   I GUESS I DON’T KNOW.

TO JUMP OFF WHAT SHAUN WAS  TALKING ABOUT IN THE SOURCE STORY THAT AUSTIN FISHER  WROTE, THAT IS AN OVERLOOKED PIECE OF EQUITY, YOU KNOW, THE  OBVIOUS ONE IS WHO GETS A LICENSE, WHO GETS A CHANCE TO  GET FOOT IN THE DOOR IN THIS BUT IT’S ALSO FOR GROUPS SUCH  AS DRUG POLICY ALLIANCE, THEY ARE SAYING A BIG PIECE OF  EQUITY IS TO SORT OF HELP THOSE PEOPLE THAT WERE  IMPACTED BY THE WAR ON DRUGS OR DRUGS IN GENERAL, RIGHT,  WHICH IS REHAB OR PREVENTION, DRUG PREVENTION STUFF.

SO, I GUESS I AM SORT OF LOST ON WHY, EVEN IN SANTA FE, THEY  ARE SAYING, YOU KNOW, OVER HALF A MILLION DOLLARS WE WANT  TO KEEP IT IN THE GENERAL FUND.

WE DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY THIS IS GOING TO PROVIDE AND  SO I AM NOT QUITE CLEAR ON WHY THERE IS SUCH A HESITANCY TO  PUT THAT MONEY SOME PLACE.

>> Dede: IT MAY BE BECAUSE  THEY DON’T KNOW WHAT THE YEAR OVER YEAR REVENUE IS GOING TO  BE AND WHETHER THERE HAS BEEN A BIG, YOU KNOW, BURST AT THE  BEGINNING OF THIS PROGRAM AND IT WILL GO DOWN IN THE  FOLLOWING YEARS.

>> Gene: LET ME GET YOU TO  STAY ON THAT SUBJECT AND WE CAN ALL TOUCH ON THIS.

THE IDEA HERE, THERE WOULD BE ENOUGH JOBS AND ENOUGH INCOME  AND ENOUGH EVERYTHING TO START TO MOVE AWAY FROM OIL AND GAS.

WERE WE TOO ANXIOUS ON THAT?

THAT IS A LOT OF MONEY  300 MILLION, BUT IT IS NOT A LOT OF MONEY AT THE END OF THE  DAY COMPARED TO OIL AND GAS.

>> Dede: IT IS NOT.

I DON’T THINK IT WAS EVERY REALLY TOUTED AS A SUBSTITUTE  FOR OIL AND GAS BUT AS ONE — AS A PIECE OF ONE ALTERNATIVE  PICTURE TO OIL AND GAS AND WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO BUILD THAT  ALTERNATIVE PICTURE.

>> Gene: DO WE KNOW, ANDY, HOW  MANY JOBS ARE CURRENTLY BEING FILLED OR OPERATING IN THIS?

THE GOVERNOR I SEEM TO RECALL THE NUMBER WAS 11,000 BACK  WHEN.

>> Andy: I THINK IT IS HOW  BROAD YOU WANT TO LOOK, BECAUSE THERE IS ANCILLARY  BUSINESSES, TOO, RIGHT.

THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT  ARE SAYING, OH, WE’LL DO MARKETING FOR YOU.

WE’LL CREATE THE LEADERBOARDS FOR YOUR STORES, WE’LL DO  SECURITY.

WE’LL BE YOUR REALTOR TO FIND  A BUILDING AND THEN, OF COURSE, IF YOU ARE VERTICALLY  INTEGRATED IN AN ACTUAL CANNABIS COMPANY, YOU COULD  HAVE JOBS ANYWHERE FROM GROWING TO RETAIL AND ANYWHERE  IN BETWEEN AND MARKETING SO I THINK IT IS HARD TO GET A REAL  IDEA OF HOW MANY JOBS THERE ARE THERE.

>> Gene: FAIR ENOUGH.

WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH  DELIVERY.

A LOT OF PEOPLE UNDERSTAND  THERE IS DELIVERY AVAILABLE FOR RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA AND  SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THIS, WHAT ARE  YOU TALKING ABOUT?

IN YOUR REPORTING HAVE YOU  COME UP ON ANYTHING.

CURIOUS ABOUT THE APD ARRESTS  AND CITATIONS.

WHAT IS GOING ON WITH ALL  THAT?

>> Shaun: WELL, THROUGH ANDY’S  REPORTING WE FOUND OUT THAT THE STATE HAS LICENSED OVER 30  COURIERS.

NOW THE STATE ALREADY HAD A  COURIER SYSTEM DEVELOPED UNDER THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA PROGRAM  AND THAT WAS CONSIDERED LIKE ONE OF THE BEST WAYS TO  PROVIDE ACCESS TO RURAL MEDICAL PATIENTS, TO THEIR  MEDICINE.

SO, JUMPING OFF OF THAT, I  BELIEVE THAT IS ALSO THE EFFORT WHEN IT COMES TO  COURIERS IS THAT YOU’RE PROVIDING ACCESS TO CANNABIS  TO PEOPLE WHO DON’T NECESSARILY HAVE A DISPENSARY  OR FIVE DISPENSARIES ON THEIR BLOCK.

SO THAT IS AN EFFORT THERE THAT I THINK IS GROWING AND  COULD HONESTLY BOOST IN NEW MEXICO AS ANOTHER JOB THAT  COULD PROVIDE MORE REVENUE FOR A PRIVATE COMPANY THAT DOESN’T  HAVE TO HAVE A MARIJUANA LICENSE, MAYBE A PARTICULAR  COURIER LICENSE, WHICH I AM STILL UNSURE IF THAT EVEN  EXISTS BECAUSE THEN THERE IS ALSO THE COURIER ELEMENT OF  HOW DO YOU TRANSPORT YOUR MONEY BACK AND FORTH.

THERE IS NOT NECESSARILY A BRINKS FOR MARIJUANA, THE BIG  ARMORED CARS, AND THAT LEADS TO SOME SORT OF FEDERAL ISSUES  REGARDING HOW MONEY IS TRANSFERRED.

TRANSPORTATION IS ANOTHER ELEMENT THAT WE ARE ACTUALLY  LOOKING INTO TO SEE WHAT IS INVOLVED WHEN IT COMES TO NOT  ONLY MOVING THE CASH SUPPLY, WHICH IS THE PREDOMINANT  AMOUNT LIKE THE SOURCE OF REVENUE THAT DISPENSARIES  HAVE, BUT ALSO YOUR INVENTORY.

OR, YOU KNOW, INVENTORY OF  YOUR PACKAGING MATERIAL.

OR JUST HOW DO YOU GET YOUR  PRODUCT OVER TO A CUSTOMER WHO LIVES HUNDREDS OF MILES AWAY  IN A RURAL COMMUNITY.

THAT IS A FASCINATING ELEMENT  TO SEE NEW MEXICO POTENTIALLY GROW INTO AS WE SEE MORE JOBS  COME OUT OF THIS INDUSTRY.

>> Gene: NICE WRAP UP THERE.

INTERESTING.

WHEN YOU GO UP 4TH STREET YOU  MIGHT AS WELL CALL IT CANNABIS ROW.

IT’S AMAZING.

THE STATION AT MENAUL AND 4TH.

IT IS A DRIVE UP.

YOU CAN DRIVE UP NOW AND PLACE  YOUR ORDER AND GET IT.

>> Andy: MENAUL IS ANOTHER  ONE.

THAT IS THREE MILES IN  ALBUQUERQUE THAT IS NOT REALLY NEAR SCHOOLS OR CHURCHES AND  STUFF.

>> Gene: FASCINATING.

IMAGINE THIS ALL STARTED WITH THE IDEA TO DO STATE RUN POP  SHOPS AND HERE WE ARE.

THANKS TO OUR LINE OPINION  PANEL.

WE’LL MEET BACK HERE AT THE  TABLE IN LESS THAN 15 TO TALK ABOUT SOME PRESSING  ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS IN OUR STATE INCLUDING NUCLEAR WASTE  DISPOSAL PLAN AND HISTORIC FLOODING IN THE JEMEZ RIVER  VALLEY.

>>   DR. OPPENHEIMER IS — IT IS AN AMERICAN STORY.

IT IS A STOREY ABOUT WHERE HE IS MINDING HIS OWN BUSINESS  TEACHING IN BERKELEY AND HE GETS APPROACHED ABOUT THIS,  YOU KNOW, THING THAT IS OF A NATIONAL CONCERN.

HE WANTS TO DO HIS PATRIOTIC DUTY AND THEN, YOU KNOW, IT IS  THE AMERICAN STORY ABOUT THE POWER AND THE GREED IN SOME  WAYS, YOU KNOW, ONCE DESTROYING THE VERY THING THAT  HE CREATED.

>> GENE:   OPIOID ADDICTION HAS DESTROYED LIVES AND FAMILIES  ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

IT IS A CRISIS UNM HOSPITAL’S MILAGRO PROGRAM FOCUSED ON  ESPECIALLY FOR EXPECTANT MOTHERS WHO ARE ADDICTED.

THE GOAL IS TO BREAK THE CYCLE OF DEPENDENCY BUT THE  PROGRAM’S MEDICAL DIRECTOR, DR. LARRY LEEMAN, SAYS  METHADONE AND BUPRENORPHINE TREATMENTS AREN’T ALWAYS  SUCCESSFUL.

THAT IS WHY DR. LEEMAN IS  ABOUT TO LAUNCH A FIRST OF ITS KIND STUDY TO ADDRESS  UNDERLYING MENTAL TRAUMAS THAT FEED ADDICTION.

THE PROGRAM USES MDMA, A DRUG POPULARLY KNOWN AS ECTASY OR  MOLLY, BUT AS DR. LEEMAN TELLS SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DIVIZIO,  WHEN GIVEN IN A CONTROLLED SETTING, IT HELPS MOM’S  OVERCOME TRAUMA DRIVEN ADDICTION AND IMPROVE THEIR  THE BOND WITH THEIR CHILD.

>> Lou: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT  HOW YOU GOT INVOLVED WITH THE MILAGRO PROGRAM TO BEGIN WITH.

WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO WORK WITH EXPECTANT MOTHERS?

>> Leeman: SURE.

SO I WAS ORIGINALLY TRAINED AS  A FAMILY MEDICINE PHYSICIAN AND THEN I DID SOME ADDITIONAL  TRAINING IN OBSTETRICS AND WE HAD A WHOLE MATERNAL-CHILD  HEALTH PROGRAM WHERE WE WERE TAKING CARE OF MOTHERS AND  BABIES.

AND PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT WAS A  GREAT MODEL TO GET INVOLVED WITH THE OPIOID POPULATION.

SO INITIALLY I TOOK CARE OF THE BABIES FOR A FEW YEARS AND  THEN, YOU KNOW, I WAS INVITED TO BE THE MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF  MILAGRO.

THAT IS 12 YEARS AGO.

STARTED DOING THAT WORK.

THAT WAS — THAT KIND OF  NATURALLY LED INTO ACTUALLY THIS WORK, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,  WHAT I LEARNED FROM THAT IS I LEARNED MORE THAT THE HEART OF  ADDICTION IS ACTUALLY TRAUMA AND WOUNDING THAT HAS  OCCURRED.

AND, YOU KNOW, DOING WORK LIKE  THE STUDY ACTUALLY DOES, THE FIRST ONE IS TO LOOK AT  MEDICATIONS THAT CAN ACTUALLY HELP PEOPLE PROCESS THEIR  TRAUMA.

>> Lou: ONE OF THE MEDICATIONS  USED RIGHT NOW IS METHADONE.

ARE THERE ANY DRAWBACKS TO  THAT TYPE OF TREATMENT?

>> Leeman: YEAH.

THERE IS TWO MAIN MEDICINES.

THERE IS METHADONE AND  BUPRENORPHINE.

METHADONE, IT IS GREAT, YOU  KNOW, FOR PEOPLE TO BE GETTING OFF OF HEROIN, FENTANYL,  OXYCODONE.

METHADONE IS VERY RESTRICTED  SO PEOPLE HAVE TO GET DOSES EITHER EVERYDAY OR THEY CAN  GET SOME TAKE HOME, SO THEY ARE TIED INTO THE SYSTEM  THERE.

SOME PEOPLE FIND THEY HAVE  SIDE EFFECTS WITH METHADONE AND THEY FEEL SEDATED FROM  DOING THAT.

BUPRENORPHINE, A LITTLE BIT  MORE FLEXIBILITY, ESPECIALLY IN A STATE LIKE NEW MEXICO,  YOU CAN GET IT PRESCRIBED AT A 30-DAY SUPPLY.

SO IF YOU LIVE IN SILVER CITY OR THE REZ, THAT IS MORE  CONVENIENT FOR MOST PEOPLE.

>> Lou: HOW CAN PSYCHODELIC  TREATMENTS BE MORE EFFECTIVE?

>> Leeman: SO IT IS A  DIFFERENT PARADIGM THAN BUPRENORPHINE OR METHADONE.

WE ARE NOT USING A REPLACEMENT THERAPY.

WHAT WE ARE DOING IS REALLY A ONE-TIME TREATMENT WITH PEOPLE  WHERE THEY WILL GO THROUGH A 12-WEEK THERAPY TIME, THEY’LL  HAVE — WE CALL IT MD MAIN ASSISTED THERAPY.

AND I THINK THAT IS IMPORTANT.

IT IS NOT THAT THE MEDICINE  ITSELF, YOU KNOW, CAN CURE ADDICTION OR TRAUMA.

IT CAN ALLOW FOR THE THERAPY THEREIN AND WHAT IT DOES IS IT  TEMPORARILY SUPPRESSES THE  FEAR.

LIKE WHEN PEOPLE HAVE HAD  TRAUMA CAUSED PTSD, THERE IS LOTS OF THINGS THAT TRIGGER  THINGS, THINGS IN THEIR LIFE THAT TRIGGERS THINGS, AND THE  ACTUAL IDEA OF PROCESSING THAT TRAUMA IS REALLY SCARY FOR  PEOPLE.

>> Lou: YOU MENTIONED TRAUMA.

CAN YOU NAIL THAT DOWN.

HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO GET TO  THAT BEFORE WE SEE ANY OTHER SIGNS OF PROGRESS IN TERMS OF  DEPENDENCY?

>> Leeman: LET ME SHARE A  LITTLE BIT HOW THE MDMA THERAPY WORKS.

THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THIS STUDY HAVE OPIOID USE  DISORDER.

THEY ARE STABILIZED ENOUGH TO  DO THE THERAPY WHICH MEANS METHADONE OR BUPRENORPHINE AND  THEN THEY HAVE HAD CHILDREN WITHIN THE LAST SIX TO 12  MONTHS.

AND SO THE REASON THERE ARE  FOLKS IN THIS POPULATION, THEY HAVE BOTH PTSD AND MEET THE  CRITERIA FOR MODERATE TO SEVERE OPIOID USE DISORDER.

SO WHAT THEY DO IN THE STUDY, THEY’LL HAVE THREE SESSIONS  WITH A THERAPIST, A THERAPIST TEAM.

THAT TEAM IS SORT OF TO ESTABLISH THE BACKGROUND,  ESTABLISH A TRUST THAT IS IMPORTANT DURING THE  EXPERIMENTAL SESSIONS.

MY EXPERIENCE AS AN MDMA  THERAPIST IS THAT OFTEN GOES DEEPER, GOES INTO WOUNDING  THAT HAPPENS IN CHILDHOOD, WHETHER IT IS ACTUALLY ABUSE  OR NEGLECT.

AND SO IT GOES BACK INTO WHAT  WE CALL — SOMETIMES WE TALK ABOUT TRAUMA AS BIG T AND  LITTLE T. BIT T IS SOMETHING LIKE A  MILITARY TRAUMA, EXPOSED TO SOMEBODY IN THE FAMILY BEING  KILLED WITH VIOLENCE, SEXUAL ABUSE.

THERE IS LITTLE TRAUMA THAT CAN HAPPEN IF YOUR PARENTS  WERE ADDICTED TO HEROIN AND YOU DIDN’T GET THE SAME AMOUNT  OF CARE SO THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED INTERGENERATIONAL  TRAUMA AND WE ARE HOPING THIS HELPS WITH INTERGENERATIONAL  TRAUMA AS WELL.

>> Lou: HOW DOES THE IDEA OF  CONNECTION PLAY INTO THIS AND WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT FOR ALL  PEOPLE BUT FOR MOTHERS SPECIFICALLY?

>> Leeman: THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

SO, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CONNECTION, SOME PEOPLE  DESCRIBE AND I THINK THIS IS ACCURATE, THAT CONNECTION IS  ALMOST THE OPPOSITE OF ADDICTION.

WHEN YOU’RE ADDICTED YOU NARROW YOUR VIEW OF THE WORLD  AND BASICALLY SOMETHING LIKE HEROIN OR FENTANYL, YOUR LIFE  REVOLVES AROUND THAT, AND YOU NARROW DOWN YOUR  RELATIONSHIPS.

PEOPLE WHO DON’T USE ARE  LARGELY BEING CUT OFF FROM PEOPLE AND SO IT IS A VERY  NARROW RESTRICTED WAY OF BEING.

BY LOOKING AT CONNECTION, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MULTIPLE  LEVELS.

LIKE ONE CONNECTION IS SIMPLY  WHAT IS YOUR CONNECTION TO FAMILY, PEOPLE IN THE  COMMUNITY, PEOPLE THAT SUPPORT YOU?

SOME OF IT IS MORE INTERNAL, WHAT IS YOUR CONNECTION TO  YOURSELF?

KIND OF YOUR OWN INTERNAL  PROCESSES AND SOME OF IT IS BROADER, ACTUALLY CONNECTION  TO THINGS LIKE THE NATURAL WORLD, GOING OUT HIKING, ALL  THOSE CAN BE PART OF THE HEALING PROCESS.

THE CLASSIC PSYCHODELIC THINGS LIKE PSILOCYBIN WORK VERY  DIRECTLY ON AFFECTING INTERCONNECTIVES IN THE BRAIN  AND IN THE OUTER LEVEL.

MDMA WORKS A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

>> Lou: WITH A MOTHER SPECIFICALLY AND THE  CONNECTION WITH HER CHILD, HOW WILL THIS TREATMENT HELP IN  THAT PROCESS?

IS THAT AN IMPORTANT THING  THAT YOU NEED TO HELP WITH.

>> Leeman: WE THINK SO.

SO THIS IS RESEARCH SO WE DON’T REALLY KNOW WHAT WE ARE  GOING TO FIND OUT BUT THE HYPOTHESIS HERE IS ABOUT HALF  OF PEOPLE WE SEE WITH OPIOID USE DURING THE PREGNANCY HAVE  PTSD AND PROBABLY MORE IF YOU INCLUDE THE LITTLE T TRAUMA.

SO WE ARE HYPOTHESIZING THAT MDMA, WHICH APPEARS IN OTHER  STUDIES TO BE EFFECTIVE FOR PTSD, BY TREATING THE PTSD,  WE’LL DECREASE THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THE PERSON RELAPSES.

WHAT WE SEE IS AFTER THE PREGNANCY, 50% OR MORE PEOPLE  BY A YEAR LATER HAVE STARTED USING.

THEY ARE BACK TO HEROIN OR FENTANYL AND SUCH AND THAT IS  HOW I GOT INTERESTED IN DOING THIS.

I WAS DOING PREGNANCY CARE, I WOULD TAKE CARE OF PEOPLE, WE  GET THROUGH THE PREGNANCY, THEY GET STABLE IN THE  POSTPARTUM AND THEN I WOULD THINK THINGS WERE GOING WELL  AND I WOULDN’T SEE THEM BECAUSE WE HAD DONE THAT AND  YEAR-AND-A-HALF LATER THEY ARE BACK USING HEROIN, PREGNANT  AGAIN.

AND I SAW THAT OVER AND OVER  AGAIN, EVENTUALLY, YOU KNOW, I THOUGH MAYBE I AM NOT GETTING  AT THE HEART OF THIS.

SO THE HOPE IS THAT BY  TREATING THE PTSD WILL AFFECT THE RESUMPTION OF THE OPIOID  USE BUT ALSO WHEN PEOPLE HAVE HAD TRAUMA, IT AFFECTS THEIR  ABILITY, YOU KNOW, CONNECTION TO BE ABLE TO CONNECT WITH  PEOPLE.

ONE OF THE MOST DEEPEST  CONNECTIONS IS MATERNAL BONDING CONNECTION.

SO THAT IS ONE THING WE ARE GOING TO STUDY AND LOOK AT HOW  THE PEOPLE ARE BONDING WITH THEIR BABY, HOW ARE THEY DOING  THAT, AND HOW DOES THAT CHANGE DURING THE STUDY AND THE HOPE  IS THAT IT WILL HELP WITH WHAT IS BROADLY CALLED MATERNAL  INFANT ATTACHMENT.

AND THAT IS ONE OF THE FACTORS  THAT WE THINK IS PART OF THE INTERGENERATIONAL TRAUMA.

PART OF IT IS LIKE IF YOU GROW UP IN A FAMILY WHEN THERE IS  ACTIVE USE, PART OF IT IS IF YOU HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO YOUR  OWN TRAUMA, BUT PART OF IT APPEARS TO BE TRANSMITTED  THROUGH THE MOTHERS.

AND THAT CAN HAPPEN AT LEVELS  FROM GENETICS, WHAT IS CALLED EPIGENETICS, AND IT CAN HAPPEN  ALSO THROUGH THE WAY THAT PEOPLE RELATE TO ATTACHMENT.

>> Lou: CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY PEOPLE CAN’T DO THIS  THEMSELVES?

WHY THIS NEEDS TO BE IN A  CONTROLLED SETTING.

YOU CAN’T JUST GO REFRAME YOUR  OWN MIND.

>> Leeman: THANKS SO MUCH FOR  BRINGING THAT UP.

FIRST OF ALL, WE DON’T WANT  PEOPLE TO RECALL IF THEY ARE DOING IT THEMSELVES, THEY  PROBABLY ARE USING STREET DRUGS.

THE STREET DRUGS THAT ARE SOLD AS MDMA, ECSTASY, AND MOLLY,  BY AND LARGE THEY MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE MDMA, THEY ARE  CONTAMINATED WITH AMPHETAMINES AND OTHER SUBSTANCES.

SO THEY WON’T ACTUALLY BE THE DRUG, BUT THERE IS WHAT WE  CALL THE CONTAINER.

AND THE THERAPIST ARE REALLY  GOOD CONTAINERS, SO THAT BEFORE THEY ENTER THE  EXPERIMENTAL SESSION, THEY’LL HAVE HAD THREE SESSIONS BEFORE  THE FIRST ONE WITH A THERAPIST TEAM.

WE’LL BE THERE FOR THE WHOLE TIME WITH THEM AND SO WE  ESTABLISH A TRUST DURING THAT TIME.

ONCE YOU HAVE THE TRUST THERE AND YOU HAVE THE USE OF THE  MDMA, IT IS NOT A VERY DIRECTED THERAPY.

I AM NOT SITTING THERE WHILE THEY ARE DOING MDMA SAYING  TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR TRAUMA.

WE ARE THERE FOR THEM AND WHAT  HAPPENS IS WHEN YOU TAKE AWAY THAT DEEP FEAR TRIGGERS WITH  MDMA, PEOPLE NATURALLY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THEIR TRAUMA.

THEY HAVE BEEN PREPPED FOR THE IDEA THIS IS A SAFE PLACE TO  TALK ABOUT THAT.

WHILE THEY ARE DOING THE MDMA  THEY’LL USUALLY START OUT WITH EYE SHADES AND HEADPHONES AND  INITIALLY GO WITHIN.

AND OFTEN WHAT HAPPENS,  THEY’LL GO BACK AND RELIVE SOME OF THE SCENES IN TRAUMA  AND MULTIPLE TIMES DURING THE SESSION, WHICH LASTS ABOUT  FIVE HOURS, THEY’LL COME OUT, TAKE THEIR EYE SHADES OFF AND  THEY ARE THERE FOR WHATEVER THEY WANT.

IF THEY WANT TO TALK AND THEY WANT TO TALK THROUGH THE  TRAUMA.

>> Lou: WHEN WILL YOUR STUDY  BEGIN?

THE MDMA STUDY.

>> Leeman: YEAH, WE WILL BE IN ABOUT THREE OR FOUR MONTHS.

WE HAVE A COUPLE OF — IT IS QUITE A TIERED PROCESS.

YOU NEED TO GET APPROVAL BY FDA, APPROVAL BY UNM.

THE DA WILL VISIT US IN A MONTH OR TWO AND LOOK AT THE  FACILITIES.

WE’RE STILL IN THE FUND  RAISING PROCESS.

THIS STUDY IS ACTUALLY RATHER  UNIQUE.

MDMA HAS BEEN USED IN  DIFFERENT WAYS AROUND THE WORLD.

THIS IS ACTUALLY THE FIRST STUDY THAT WILL BE DONE FOR  OPIOIDS, ONLY THE SECOND STUDY IN THE WHOLE WORLD AS FAR AS  WITH SUBSTANCE USE.

THEY HAVE DONE SOME WORK WITH  ALCOHOL AND SO THIS REALLY IS SORT OF A UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY  FOR US TO ACTUALLY SEE DOES THIS WORK?

DOES ACTUALLY TREATING PTSD WITH MDMA HELP THAT PART OF  IT?

>> Lou: DO YOU THINK A  SUCCESSFUL STUDY LIKE THIS COULD HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND  THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN CHANGE IF YOU’RE — YOU CAN CHANGE  YOUR MIND TO BECOME A BETTER VERSION OF YOURSELF.

MAYBE THAT IS NOT THE BEST WAY TO PHRASE IT BUT ABLE TO  CHANGE YOUR MIND.

HOW IMPORTANT IS IT FOR PEOPLE  TO KNOW THAT IS POSSIBLE.

>> Leeman: YEAH, THAT IS A  BEAUTIFUL QUESTION.

I THINK THE KEY PART OF HOW  DOES MDMA WORK.

AND I THINK WHAT IT DOES IS  ALLOWS PEOPLE TO REFRAME THEIR MEMORIES, KIND OF UNDERSTAND  THEIR MEMORIES FROM A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW,  UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THEIR POTENTIAL.

IT GIVES THEM A GLIMPSE OF, FOR A FOUR TO SIX HOUR PERIOD,  LIVING WITHOUT THAT FEAR, LIVING WITHOUT THOSE TRIGGERS.

AND SO THAT CAN HELP MODEL, BUT WHAT IS HAPPENING IS THEY  ARE BRINGING UP THEIR TRAUMAS AND THERE IS A CERTAIN BEAUTY  AT SEEING THIS PROCESS AND SEEING SOMEONE WHO CAME TO SEE  US FOR A RELATIONSHIP TRAUMA AND BY THE END OF THE THIRD  SESSION, THEY ARE PROCESSING THROUGH THEIR DEEPER CHILDHOOD  ISSUES.

AND PEOPLE HAVE SAID, WHICH I  THINK IS ACCURATE, IS THERE IS A POTENTIAL TO ACHIEVE THE  SAME THING THAT MAY TAKE MANY YEARS IN OTHER THERAPIES, IN A  RELATIVELY SHORT TIME WINDOW.

SO, WE ARE EXCITED TO HAVE  THIS HAPPENING HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Ricks: SPACE IS SO BIG THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE   SAY THAT IT MAKES THEM FEEL INSIGNIFICANT.

WE ARE VERY TINY IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS BUT BEING  ABLE TO LOOK OUT AND SEE SOME OF THESE THINGS THAT ARE SO  FAR AWAY, SO BIG, THE SCALE OF THIS IS SO UNIMAGINABLE, AND  YET WE ARE ABLE TO TAKE PART IN THAT.

WE ARE PART OF THAT AND SO, IN  ONE SENSE YOU FEEL SMALL.

IN ANOTHER SENSE YOU FEEL BIG  AND THIS IS KIND OF MAGIC.

>> Gene:   WELCOME BACK TO THE LINE OPINION PANEL.

NEW MEXICO SITS AT A CROSSROADS THIS WEEK, AS THE  FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DECIDES THE FATE OF ONE TOXIC WASTE SITE  AND CONSIDERS PLANS FOR ANOTHER.

THE FEDS NEED STATE APPROVAL TO KEEP THE WASTE ISOLATION  PILOT PLANT, KNOWN AS WIPP, UP AND RUNNING FOR THE NEXT 10  YEARS.

ACCORDING TO SOURCE NEW  MEXICO, THE SITE’S CURRENT PERMIT CALLS FOR THE PLANT TO  CLOSE NEXT YEAR AND A FEDERAL REPORT SAYS THAT THE WIPP  DISPOSAL SPACE COULD RUN OUT OF SPACE BY 2025.

RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER.

THIS IS ALL HAPPENING AS  FEDERAL OFFICIALS CONSIDER LICENSING ANOTHER NUCLEAR  WASTE SITE IN SOUTHEAST NEW MEXICO.

NOW, IF THAT IS APPROVED, HOLTEC INTERNATIONAL WOULD  OPEN A MULTIMILLION DOLLAR DUMPING GROUND THAT COULD HOLD  NEARLY 9,000 METRIC TONS OF SPENT NUCLEAR WASTE.

WHEN WIPP BEGAN OPERATING HERE IN NEW MEXICO, WE OPENED THE  DOORS FOR THIS STATE TO BE WHERE THE REST OF THE COUNTRY  STORES WASTE THEY DON’T WANT.

SENATOR, AM I RIGHT ON THAT  AND ARE WE ABOUT TO TAKE A CORNER TO BE JUST KNOWN AS THE  DUMPING GROUND FOR THE REST OF THE COUNTRY?

HATE TO START OUT WITH SUCH A STARK QUESTION BUT A LOT OF  FOLKS ARE VERY AFRAID OF THAT.

>> Dede: I THINK THE CIVIC  LEADERS FROM SOUTHEAST NEW MEXICO LITERALLY SOLICITED THE  HOLTEC PLANT TO COME TO THAT AREA USING THE ARGUMENT THAT  WE ARE WILLING TO DO THIS, WE ARE TRAINED.

WE KNOW THE ROPES.

IT IS REALLY UNFORTUNATE, I  THINK, FOR THE REST OF THE STATE BECAUSE OF THE  TRANSPORTATION ISSUE.

THIS STUFF HAS TO BE  TRANSPORTED TO THIS REMOTE LOCATION THROUGH NEW MEXICO.

AND, OF COURSE, THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO  FACILITIES.

ONE IS PUBLIC AND ONE IS  PRIVATE.

ONE IS — HOLTEC IS TO HOUSE  VERY, VERY DANGEROUS, HIGH LEVEL WASTE AND THE OTHER,  WIPP, IS MORE LONG LASTING TRANSURANIC WASTE THAT IS  MAYBE NOT QUITE SO DANGEROUS IMMEDIATELY, BUT IT IS GOING  TO LAST 250,000 YEARS.

>> Gene: IF THOSE BARRELS  DON’T GIVE AWAY FIRST UNDERGROUND AND WE HAVE HAD  THAT TALK HERE AT THIS TABLE CERTAINLY.

ANDY, INTERESTINGLY STANDING IN THE WAY OF THE PROPOSED  HOLTEC SITE, THE SENATOR MENTIONED, IS A NEW BILL THE  GOVERNOR SIGNED LAST MONTH AND AS YOU KNOW BLOCKS THE FEDS  FROM CREATING A HIGH LEVEL WASTE SITE WITHOUT STATE  APPROVAL, BUT THAT LEGISLATION DOESN’T GO INTO EFFECT UNTIL  JUNE 15 AND THE NRC SAYS IT COULD MAKE ITS DECISION   IN MAY.

A BIT OF A DILEMMA HERE.

HOW MUCH TEETH DOES THAT  ACTUALLY HAVE?

WHAT WAS PASSED IN SANTA FE TO STOP  THIS?

>> Andy: I THINK AGAIN TIMING  WISE, IT WOULD HAVE HAD A LOT MORE TEETH IF IT WAS, BUT THAT  IS ALSO SORT OF THE NATURE OF THE LEGISLATURE.

THAT IS JUST, THERE IS A TIME LINE OF THINGS THAT HAPPEN.

I GUESS, AND MAYBE THE SENATOR COULD SPEAK ON THIS BETTER,  BUT I WOULD IMAGINE THAT THERE IS SOME SORT OF PROVISION OF,  OKAY, NOW THE LAW IS IN EFFECT.

I DON’T KNOW.

THAT CREATES A WHOLE MESS OF  UNTANGLING THERE, I THINK.

>> Gene: THEY ARE TRYING TO  GET IN FRONT OF IT.

THE GOVERNOR IS TRYING TO GET  IN FRONT OF THIS AND OTHERS.

IS IT FUTILE, THIS BILL THAT  WAS PASSED IN THE LEGISLATURE?

>> Dede: I THINK IT IS A GOOD  THING THAT BILL PASSED OUT OF THE LEGISLATURE.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS ALSO WEIGHED IN WITH THE GOVERNOR.

GOVERNOR SIGNED IT RIGHT AWAY THE NEXT DAY.

AS A SIGNAL THAT THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT BEFORE THE  NRC INEVITABLY, IN MY VIEW, ISSUES ITS PERMIT.

THE EPA ONE IS PENDING, A LITTLE BIT LONGER TERM.

AND THIS IS GOING TO GIVE — THIS IS GOING TO CREATE A LOT  OF PROBLEMS FOR HOLTEC.

AND I DON’T THINK — AND  PARTICULARLY BECAUSE IT IS A PRIVATE FACILITY RATHER THAN A  DOE ISSUES.

>> Gene: THERE IS OVERSIGHT  ISSUES.

THERE IS ALL KINDS OF ISSUES  OF PRIVATE VERSUS — >> Dede: IN SOME WAYS IT HAS  MORE OF A HANDLE ON IT,  BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO ISSUE BUILDING PERMITS, DO  TRANSPORTATION PERMITS.

THERE IS A WHOLE BUNCH OF  STUFF.

IF YOU WANT TO BUILD ANYTHING  IN NEW MEXICO, YOU GOT TO JUMP THROUGH A LOT OF HOOPS NOT  JUST ENVIRONMENTAL ONES.

>> Gene: SHAUN, INTERESTINGLY  THERE IS A FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION.

SENATOR MENTIONED THE FOLKS DOWN IN THIS PART OF THE EDDY  LEA COUNTY ACTIVELY SEEKING TO BRING FOLKS IN.

ARE THEY CHOOSING ECONOMIC GROWTH OVER HEALTH AND SAFETY  OF THEIR FOLKS DOWN THERE?

>> Shaun: IT APPEARS THAT  ECONOMIC GROWTH IS IMPACTFUL AND IT IS PART OF HOLTEC’S  PLAN.

THEY ARE SAYING THEY ARE GOING  TO BE OFFERING MORE THAN 250,000 JOBS, $75,000 JOBS.

>> Gene: A LOT OF MONEY.

>> Shaun: WELL, I DON’T KNOW,  I MEAN, THERE IS A LOT OF OIL AND GAS MONEY THAT PAID AT THE  BEGINNING.

THAT IS WHAT WE WERE  DISCUSSING EARLIER WITH THE SENATOR WAS, WHEN THIS STARTED  IN 1999 OR A LITTLE YEARS BEFORE THAT, AS THEY WERE  SOLICITING THESE INDUSTRIES, OIL AND GAS WAS NOT WHERE IT  WAS TODAY.

NOW THAT YOU HAVE ANOTHER TYPE  OF INDUSTRY THAT IS ACTIVE THAT ALSO HAS TO GO INTO THE  GROUND, INTO THE EARTH, POTENTIALLY HOPEFULLY NOT OVER  ANY KIND OF WASTE SITE OR IT COULD JUST DISTURB THOSE WASTE  SITES, I THINK THERE IS A LOT MORE TO CONSIDER WHEN IT COMES  TO THAT.

THESE ARE ALSO MASSIVE  INDUSTRIES.

YOU MENTIONED THE NATION’S  DUMPING GROUNDS.

WE ARE ALSO TALKING  INTERNATIONAL WASTE THAT COULD GET TO NEW MEXICO, IF THIS  GROUP WERE TO EXPAND.

I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGER  ELEMENTS TOO, WE ARE GOING TO CONSIDER WITH THE TIMING OF  THE DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS BEING FILED, EVEN IF THE FEDS  APPROVE HOLTEC’S PLAN, HOLTEC WOULD STILL ALSO HAVE TO APPLY  FOR STATE PERMITS WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY AS WELL  AS DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION.

UNDER THE NEW LAW, THE STATE DOES HAVE SOME STRICT  GUIDELINES, NO.

1, NOT TO SOLICIT NEW PERMITS AND GRANTS  FOR NUCLEAR STORAGE WASTE.

THAT IS IN DIRECT CONFLICT  WITH THE STATE LAW, BUT THEN WHERE IT IS GOING TO BECOME A  BIG THING IS THE BATTLE IN COURTS WHERE IT IS PREEMPTIVE  ARGUMENTS MADE.

THE CONCEPT WHERE COUNTY LAWS,  STATE LAWS ARE TRUMPED COUNTY LAW AND FEDERAL LAW TRUMPS  STATE LAW.

WE COULD END UP — THE HOLTEC NEGOTIATION COULD BE GOING ON  FOR YEARS BEFORE ANYTHING IS ACTUALLY BUILT OR DUG INTO THE  GROUND.

>> Gene: THAT IS A GOOD POINT.

>> Dede: THE HOPE IS IN THAT TIME PERIOD THERE WILL BE  ANOTHER PERMANENT WASTE FACILITY DESIGNATED BY THE  FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE IS  THAT THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN INTERIM FACILITY AND YET  INTERIM FACILITIES HAVE A WAY OF BECOMING PERMANENT, DON’T  THEY?

>> Gene: THANK YOU.

>> Dede: THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH WIPP.

>> Gene: GOING TO CHANGE UP A LITTLE BIT AND GO TO ANOTHER  ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUE OUT THERE HEADING TO SANDOVAL COUNTY,  FAR DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERN UP THERE, AND THAT IS  WATER.

GOVERNOR DECLARED A STATE OF  EMERGENCY IN SANDOVAL COUNTY LAST WEEK, BECAUSE THE JEMEZ  RIVER IS RUNNING CAUSING FLOODING IN THE JEMEZ RIVER  VALLEY, ANDY.

RANCHERS, NEIGHBORHOODS, AN  ANOMALY, CLIMATE CHANGE?

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

A LOT OF WHIPLASH BETWEEN DROUGHT AND FLOODING WE ARE  SUFFERING HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Andy: IT IS HARD NOT TO SEE  THIS AS AN IMPACT OF CLIMATE CHANGE, RIGHT.

WHEN YOU SEE THAT THE SNOW PACK IS MELTING FASTER THAN WE  WOULD WANT IT TO AND EVERYTHING IS RUSHING DOWN THE  RIVER AND THEN WHEN THINGS FREEZE UP AGAIN, IT SLOWS  DOWN, AND THERE WAS SOME GREAT QUOTES AND A LOT OF THE  STORIES THAT HAVE COME OUT, OR NOT QUOTES, BUT, YOU KNOW,  THAT SORT OF THAT WE ARE AT NATURE’S MERCY.

WE CAN’T REALLY CONTROL WHAT HAPPENS.

I GUESS WE HAVE IMPACTS ON IT BUT WE ARE JUST SORT OF AT ITS  WILL.

>> Gene: YOU HAVE LOCAL  KNOWLEDGE OF THE JEMEZ RIVER VALLEY, FOR SURE, PERSONALLY.

WHAT HAS THE FLOODING BEEN LIKE?

HAVE YOU BEEN UP TO SEE IT?

>> Dede: WE HAVE A WEEKEND  PLACE UP IN JEMEZ SPRINGS WHICH IS THE EPICENTER OF  THIS.

AND I GOT TO TELL YOU, I WAS  DELIGHTED.

IT WAS WONDERFUL TO SEE THIS  SURGE, THIS SPRING RUNOFF AND SEE THE BOSQUE FLOODED BANKS  OF THE JEMEZ RIVER BEGINNING TO MEANDER RATHER THAN HAVING  A STRAIGHT CHANNEL.

THIS WAS WHAT IT USED TO BE  LIKE.

AND THE DANGER IS OVER.

I WENT AROUND AND LOOKED AT THE BEGINNING OF LAST WEEK,  WHICH IS WHEN IT WAS AT ITS HEIGHT, I THINK, MAYBE SEVEN  OR EIGHT FEET.

NINE FEET IS FLOODING.

AND JEMEZ SPRINGS HAD THAT IN 1942 WAS THE LAST TIME.

THE RIVER IS NOW AT ABOUT SIX FEET.

THAT IS REALLY NOT A PROBLEM EXCEPT FOR ONE THING AND THIS  IS I THINK CHARACTERISTIC OF A LOT OF RURAL COMMUNITIES, AND  THAT IS, THEY HAVE THEIR SMALL SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANT LOCATED  RIGHT NEXT TO THE RIVER.

SO, THEY HAVE THAT BECAUSE,  YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE TO LIVE NEXT TO THE RIVER WHEN  THEY ARE IN THESE RURAL COMMUNITIES AND IF THEY HAVE  SEPTIC TANKS THEN THAT POLLUTES THE RIVER.

SO, THEREFORE, THE MUNICIPALITY WHEN THEY HAVE  THE MONEY TO DO IT, BUILD THESE SMALL SEWAGE TREATMENT  PLANTS.

AND IN THIS CASE, THE SEWAGE  TREATMENT PLANT WAS FLOODED AND THE PUMPS FAILED.

SEWAGE DID GET INTO THE RIVER.

NOT ENOUGH TO REALLY POLLUTE  THE RIVER.

E-COLI COUNT WAS ONE AND  CONTAMINATION IS FOUR.

AND THEY HAVE BEEN PUMPING OUT  AND SORT OF RESCUING THE SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANT.

THERE WAS ALSO A PIPE THAT FAILED.

AND THERE HAS BEEN EXCELLENT COORDINATION BETWEEN THE  PUEBLO, WHICH IS DOWNSTREAM OF JEMEZ SPRINGS, AND THEY ARE  DUMPING SOME OF THIS WASTE INTO A LAGOON AT JEMEZ PUEBLO.

IT IS BEING MANAGED EFFECTIVELY, I THINK, AND THE  WEATHER IS GETTING A BIT CHILLIER.

LAST WEEK THERE WAS A BIG WARM SPELL AND THAT SENT A BIG  SURGE OF RIVER WATER DOWN THERE, SO —  >> Gene: IT IS THE TALK OF THE WEST, CALIFORNIA TO HERE, AND  EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT A BLESSING IN DISGUISE AND NOW  WE HAVE TO MANAGE THIS.

DOES THE AREA NEED FOR DAMS,  FLOOD-BASED INFRASTRUCTURE?

HAVE WE LEARNED FROM THE  FLOODING WE BACK IN THE OLD CERRO GRANDE THAT WIPED OUT  DIXON APPLE FARMS AND THEY WERE PLACING BARRIERS.

DO WE NEED TO DO BETTER AT THAT AND COUNT ON FLOODING AT  THIS POINT?

>> Shaun: I THINK WHAT THE  SENATOR SAID ABOUT JEMEZ PUEBLO DOWNSTREAM HAVING THE  CAPACITY TO MANAGE A LOT OF THE FLOODING IS BECAUSE OF THE  INFRASTRUCTURE THAT THE PUEBLO NOW HAS.

THE PUEBLO HAS ENTERPRISES LIKE A DEPARTMENT OF  TRANSPORTATION THAT THEY OPERATE.

THEY HAVE A HOUSING DEVELOPMENT.

THEY HAVE AN EARLY CHILDHOOD CENTER AND A NATURAL RESOURCES  DEPARTMENT THAT ARE BUILT TO OPERATE AND MANAGE THE  FLOODING AND IRRIGATION THAT THERE ARE STILL FARMERS USING  THIS WATER WITHIN THE PUEBLO WHO HAVE MASSIVE SPACES OF  LAND.

THAT’S WHERE YOU GET THAT GOOD  JEMEZ PUEBLO CHILE.

SO, I THINK THAT SEEING THE  CAPACITY FOR THE PUEBLO TO HAVE THAT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS  IN INFRASTRUCTURE TO HELP SUSTAIN THE SORT OF STATE,  COUNTY AND LOCAL TOWNSHIPS COLLABORATIVE, THAT IS HOW YOU  STRENGTHEN IT.

BECAUSE FOR THE LONGEST TIME  THERE WAS STATE, COUNTY AND THEN THE PUEBLO, WHICH WAS  KIND OF ALWAYS TRYING TO KEEP UP AND DIDN’T HAVE THE  SUBSTANTIAL RESOURCES THAT IT DOES NOW.

BUT, YEAH, I THINK THAT IS BENEFICIAL TO THE OVERALL  EFFORT.

IT DOESN’T AFFECT PEOPLE EVEN  FURTHER DOWN THE STREAM LIKE SAN YSIDRO FURTHER DOWN AND  EVEN THE ROAD CONDITIONS SO PEOPLE CAN STILL ACCESS THEIR  HOMES.

>> Gene: FLOODING IS AN ISSUE.

IT IS SO INTERESTING TO GO FROM DEAD DRY, DUST BLOWING  AROUND, TO MORE WATER THAN WE CAN MANAGE, CALIFORNIA, LAKE  MEAD IS COMING UP.

I DON’T KNOW WHERE ELEPHANT  BUTTE IS, IF ANYBODY HAS HEARD IF WE ARE STARTING TO RISE OUR  WATER LEVELS DOWN THERE.

FROM THE RUNOFF, ALL WE CAN DO  IS HOPE AT THIS POINT.

SENATOR HAVE YOU HEARD?

>> Dede: I THINK THE RESERVOIRS IN NORTHERN NEW  MEXICO ARE FILLING UP BUT THE AMOUNT THAT IS IN ELEPHANT  BUTTE IS JUST DEPENDENT UPON THE RELEASES FROM THOSE  RESERVOIRS.

>> Gene: IT IS GOING TO TAKE A  LONG TIME FOR ELEPHANT BUTTE DOWNSTREAM.

THANKS AGAIN TO THE LINE PANEL FOR THIS WEEK.

BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY TOPICS WE  COVERED ON OUR SOCIAL MEDIA PAGES AND CHECK OUT AN EXTRA  CONVERSATION I HAD WITH THIS GROUP ABOUT NEW SCHEDULES  COMING TO ALBUQUERQUE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

THAT’S ON THE NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS YOUTUBE PAGE.

BUT RIGHT NOW WE ARE LOOKING AHEAD TO THE PREMIER OF A NEW  FILM PROFILING A POLARIZING FIGURE HERE IN NEW MEXICO  HISTORY.

THAT WOULD BE ROBERT  OPPENHEIMER.

NEW MEXICO FILMMAKER, LARRY  SHEFFIELD’S, DOCUMENTARY PIECES TOGETHER OLD FOOTAGE,  DECLASSIFIED FOOTAGE AND DOCUMENTS AND OTHER RESEARCH  FROM MONTHS AND YEARS AFTER THE NUCLEAR TESTS AT WHITE  SANDS MISSILE RANGE.

THIS WEEK ON THE NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS FACEBOOK PAGE I SPOKE  WITH MR. SHEFFIELD ABOUT THE INSPIRATION BEHIND HIS FILM  AND THE CONTINUED FASCINATION WITH OPPENHEIMER’S LEGACY.

YOU HAVE AN INTERESTING EVENT COMING UP REGARDING A VERY  SPECIFIC TIME IN MR. OPPENHEIMER’S HISTORY AND  IT IS AFTER TRINITY.

AND WE HAVE SPENT SO MUCH TIME  IN OUR CULTURE, THROUGH HOLLYWOOD AND OTHER PLACES,  TALKING ABOUT THE BEFORE AND RUNUP AND DURING, BUT NOT SO  MUCH THE AFTER.

WHY DID YOU WANT TO CUT AT IT  THIS WAY AND LOOK AT HIS LIFE AFTER TRINITY?

>> Sheffield: WHAT IS INTERESTING IS SO OUR FILM,  FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE VIEWER, WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT  BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER TRINITY BUT THE BIGGEST PART  OF THE FILM IS AFTER TRINITY AND ALL THE THINGS THAT  HAPPENED AFTER.

AND MY FATHER WASN’T INVOLVED  IN THE MILITARY BUT MY GRANDFATHER WAS, BROUGHT OUT  TO NEW MEXICO TO WORK AT LOS ALAMOS IN THE MANHATTAN  PROJECT, SO I DO HAVE A PERSONAL CONNECTION BUT,  ANYWAY, I FELT LIKE I HAD A PERSPECTIVE THAT NEEDED TO BE  TOLD.

AND I WANTED TO DO THREE  DOCUMENTARY FILMS TO TELL THE WHOLE STORY OF EVERYTHING THAT  WAS GOING ON IN NEW MEXICO AND SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO BETWEEN  THAT PERIOD TIME.

AND WE JUST COULDN’T DO IT ALL  IN ONE PROJECT.

IT IS ACTUALLY HARD TO TRY TO  DO IT IN THREE DIFFERENT SEGMENTS BUT WE HAVE A TRILOGY  THAT WE ARE PRODUCING.

WE HAVE DONE TWO OF THE THREE  FILMS AND THE THIRD ONE IS ABOUT HALF FINISHED AND ALL  THREE OF THESE WILL FOCUS ON JUST THAT MOMENT IN TIME  AROUND THE MANHATTAN PROJECT AND THE EVENTS THAT HAPPENED  THEREAFTER.

AND IN THE SECOND FILM, WHICH  WE ARE SHOWING IN LOS ALAMOS THIS WEEKEND, WE REALLY FOCUS  ON DR. OPPENHEIMER.

HE WAS ABSOLUTELY THE PIVOTAL  PERSONALITY OF THIS WHOLE STORY AND IT WAS HIS ACTIONS  AND REACTIONS THAT TOOK PLACE THAT WE REALLY TRIED TO FOCUS  ON.

>> Gene: WHAT IS THE  CONTINUING FASCINATION WITH THIS MAN?

I HAVE READ A LOT ABOUT HIM, WATCHED A LOT ABOUT HIM AND IT  IS SO INTERESTING.

I DON’T KNOW IF WE HAVE EVER  WRESTLED IT TO THE GROUND, WHO THIS MAN WAS.

DO YOU FEEL YOU HAVE?

>> Sheffield: HIS GRANDSON IS  IN OUR FILM, BY THE WAY, AND WHEN I WAS DOWN INTERVIEWING  HIM I SAID, YOU KNOW, I REALLY HAVE STUDIED YOUR GRANDFATHER  AND REALLY TRIED TO GET INTO HIS HEAD AND READ JUST ABOUT  EVERYTHING HE SAID DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME AND I HAVE  TRIED TO FIND EVERY AUDIO TAPE AND FILM TAPE THAT I CAN THAT  IS ABOUT YOUR GRANDFATHER.

AND HE WAS A VERY COMPLEX, YET  SIMPLE MAN.

HE WAS VERY COMFORTABLE IN NEW MEXICO BECAUSE HE LIKED THE  SIMPLICITY OF LIVING OUT AND HORSEBACK RIDING, HIKING.

HE LOVED OUR FOOD.

AND HE LOVED OUR PEOPLE AND  THE PEOPLE LOVED HIM.

HE WAS A VERY — HE WAS THE  KIND OF PERSON THAT HE DIDN’T CARE IF YOU WERE A SCIENTIST  OR THE PERSON WORKING ON HIS CAR.

HE WOULD BEFRIEND YOU AND BE FRIENDLY AND GET TO KNOW YOU  AND SO HE WAS A REALLY INTERESTING GUY, HAD A LOT OF  CHARISMA.

AND YOU HEAR THE STORIES ABOUT  THE SCIENTISTS THROUGH ALL THE TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS IT WAS  OPPENHEIMER’S LEADERSHIP AND CHARISMA THAT GOT THEM OFF TO  THE NEXT BEAT.

SO, REALLY INTERESTING GUY.

SPOKE FRENCH, SPOKE ENGLISH.

I AM SURE HE SPOKE A LITTLE  BIT OF SPANISH AND SO HE WAS JUST A REALLY INTERESTING  PERSON.

>> Gene:   DID HE DOCUMENT A LOT OF HIS THOUGHTS IN LIFE IN  WRITING?

WAS HE ONE TO SCRIBE THINGS IN  A JOURNAL?

DO WE HAVE A TRAIL THAT WAY TO  HIS INNER THOUGHTS?

>> Sheffield: I DON’T THINK HE  KEPT A DAILY JOURNAL.

WHAT HE DID MORE OF WAS SPEAK  AND HE SPOKE DURING THE EVENT IN LOS ALAMOS BUT HE SPOKE  EVEN MORE AFTER THE EVENT IN LOS ALAMOS.

SO OUR FILM COVERS A LOT OF HIS SPEECHES AND HAVING TO GO  THROUGH THOSE SPEECHES SO I COULD FIND THE LITTLE BITS  THAT ARE IN ALL THAT MATERIAL.

WE HAVE SOME REALLY  INTERESTING THINGS THAT HE SAYS THAT ARE VERY DEEP AND  PERSONAL, CONVICTIONS THAT HE HAD.

AND SO IT IS THOSE SPEECHES THAT REALLY TELL THE STORY.

BUT I HAVE NEVER FOUND A JOURNAL OR, YOU KNOW, A LOT  OF — THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS THAT HE WROTE BUT NOT ON A  DAY-TO-DAY BASIS.

>> Gene: WE ARE TALKING TO  LARRY SHEFFIELD.

HE IS THE DIRECTOR OF  OPPENHEIMER AFTER TRINITY WHICH WILL DEBUT ON APRIL 22,  THAT IS SATURDAY AT SALA EVENT AT THE LOS ALAMOS EVENT  CENTER.

WE’LL TALK ABOUT THAT AT THE  END OF THE INTERVIEW.

AS LARRY MENTIONED UP TOP,  THAT IS SOLD OUT BUT THERE ARE OTHER SCREENINGS COMING UP.

HOW IS IT HE IS SO POLARIZING STILL TODAY?

1945 WAS A LONG TIME AGO.

LARRY, WHAT IS IT ABOUT — IS  IT HIM?

WE HAVE A CHRISTOPHER NOLAN  DRAMATIZATION COMING UP THIS SUMMER.

WE HAD THAT MANHATTAN TELEVISION SERIES FOR A COUPLE  OF YEARS OUT OF WGN IN CHICAGO A FEW YEARS AGO.

EVERYBODY WANTS TO KEEP TAKING THEIR CUT AT DR. OPPENHEIMER.

IT IS SO FASCINATING.

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE  ALL THESE YEARS LATER?

>> Sheffield: DR. OPPENHEIMER,  IT’S AN AMERICAN STORY.

IT IS A STORY ABOUT WHERE HE  IS MINDING HIS OWN BUSINESS, TEACHING IN BERKELEY AND HE  GETS APPROACHED ABOUT THIS THING THAT IS OF A NATIONAL  CONCERN.

HE WANTS TO DO HIS PATRIOTIC  DUTY ALONG WITH OTHERS, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE MAYBE NOT AS  FOCUSED ON THE POLITICS OF IT, THEY REALIZE THE URGENCY OF US  NOT HAVING A MAD MAN TAKE US OVER BECAUSE HE GETS THIS  TECHNOLOGY FIRST.

SO, HE PUTS ALL OF HIS  RESOURCES NIGHT AND DAY AND HIS BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS AND  IS SUCCESSFUL.

AND EVEN IN, YOU KNOW, IT IS  THE AMERICAN STORY ABOUT THE POWER AND THE GREED, IN SOME  WAYS, YOU KNOW, WANTS TO DESTROY THE VERY THING THAT HE  CREATED.

THE WHOLE TIME HE IS TRYING TO  WARN EVERYONE, THE POLITICIANS, THE PEOPLE, THIS  IS WHAT WE HAVE CREATED THAT NEEDS TO BE HANDLED AS GENTLY  AND CAREFULLY AND METHODICAL AND IT IS ALMOST AS IF, YOU  KNOW, HE WASN’T LISTENED TO.

SO THERE IS A LOT OF AMERICAN  STORY ATTRIBUTES, A LOT OF HUMAN STORY ATTRIBUTES THAT  ARE IN THIS ONE PERSONALITY OF THIS MAN.

AND, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, HE IS AS SOPHISTICATED AS THE  MOST — HE CAN SIT DOWN AND SHOP TALK WITH EINSTEIN BUT AT  THE SAME TIME I FOUND SO MANY STORIES WHERE HE BEFRIENDED  PEOPLE — HIS MECHANIC — HIS FAVORITE PLACE WHERE HE ATE,  HE GOT VERY CLOSE TO THE FOLKS THAT OWNED THAT PARTICULAR  CAFE NEAR LOS ALAMOS.

SO, HE WAS THE KIND OF GUY  THAT, YOU KNOW, ONCE AGAIN, HE BEFRIENDED EVERYBODY.

>> Gene: THAT IS KIND OF INTERESTING, A LITTLE INSIGHT  INTO THE MAN THERE.

BECAUSE IT IS EASY TO THINK OF  HIM AS A STAND-ALONE CHARACTER LIVING IN A BUBBLE, HUNG UP  ON — THE EVERYDAY LIFE OF MR. OPPENHEIMER IS NOT  SOMETHING WE THINK ABOUT GENERALLY.

DID YOU LEARN SOMETHING NEW IN YOUR RESEARCH AND IN YOUR GOAL  TO GET THIS FILM DONE?

WAS THERE SOMETHING ABOUT  DR. OPPENHEIMER THAT SURPRISED YOU, YOU HADN’T REALIZED  PREVIOUSLY?

>> Sheffield: I THINK THE  TRAGEDY OF THE STORY.

I WENT INTO THIS WITH A WHOLE  LOT OF DIFFERENT IDEAS AND THOUGHTS ON HOW TO PRESENT IT.

BUT THE THING THAT KEPT COMING BACK TO ME WAS THE TRAGEDY OF  WHAT WAS DONE, TAKING AWAY HIS SECURITY CLEARANCE AND THE  FACT THAT HE LIVED HIS ENTIRE LIFE TO THE VERY END TRYING TO  PERSUADE HIS PEERS AND THE PEOPLE AT THE TIME ABOUT THIS  NOVEL POWER.

AND I DON’T THINK HE WAS EVER  ASHAMED OF DOING THE JOB BUT HE CERTAINLY WANTED US, THE  WORLD, TO WORK TOGETHER IN HARMONY AND TRY TO CONTROL  THIS GENIE OUT OF THE BOTTLE AS YOU WOULD CALL IT.

>> Gene: THAT BRINGS US TO THE SCREENING AND THE FOLKS THAT  YOU ARE WORKING WITH IN LOS ALAMOS.

THEY ARE TICKLED OBVIOUSLY TO BE INVOLVED WITH YOU.

TELL US, FOR FOLKS THAT DON’T KNOW WHAT SALA IS AND THE  ORGANIZATION, TELL US ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT, IF YOU  WOULD, AND THEN WE’LL TALK ABOUT HOW FOLKS CAN SEE THE  FILM.

>> Sheffield: SO, LOS ALAMOS  HAS ONE THEATER AND IT CLOSED.

IT WAS A COMMERCIAL THEATER  BUT IT KIND OF SHUT DOWN AND A VERY INNOVATIVE GENTLEMAN  BOUGHT IT THAT STILL WANTS TO SHOW FILMS AND HAVE A KIND OF  COMMUNITY CENTER WHERE PEOPLE CAN COME AND HAVE DIFFERENT  EVENTS AND DIFFERENT COMMUNITY THINGS.

SO, WHEN I WAS SHOWING THE VERY FIRST FILM THAT WE HAD  DONE, ALAMOGORDO CENTER OF THE WORLD, TRINITY 1945, WE HAD  THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHOW THAT FILM IN THE LODGE ON THE VERY  DAY OF THE TRINITY TEST, JULY 16.

AND IT WAS REALLY AN HONOR FOR ME TO BE THERE BUT I MET ALLEN  AND HE SAID, YOU KNOW, I HAVE A THEATER THAT IS AVAILABLE  AND MAYBE ON YOUR NEXT FILM IF YOU WANT TO SHOW IT, WE CAN DO  THAT.

WE DECIDED — DR.  OPPENHEIMER’S BIRTHDAY WOULD BE A GREAT TIME TO DO THAT AND  I PROMISED THE PEOPLE OF LOS ALAMOS THAT THIS IS THEIR  FILM, IT BELONGS TO THEM, THERE IS A LOT OF FOOTAGE THAT  SO MANY OF THEM ARE GOING TO SEE THEY HAVE NEVER SEEN  BEFORE.

I SAID, YOU KNOW, I WANT TO  SHOW IT IN YOUR COMMUNITY FIRST.

I WANT YOU GUYS TO BE THE FIRST ONES TO HAVE THE  ADVANTAGE OF SEEING THIS.

>> Gene: IT IS INTERNATIONAL  DARK SKY WEEK, A TIME TO LOOK UP AND THINK ABOUT WHAT WE CAN  SEE, NOT WITH HIGH-POWERED TELESCOPES OR NASA TECHNOLOGY,  BUT WHAT WE CAN SEE WITH OUR OWN EYES.

LIGHT POLLUTION HAS BLOCKED THE NIGHT SKIES IN SO MANY  PLACES WORLDWIDE BUT THIS WEEK AS OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER,  LAURA PASKUS, REPORTS, EVERYONE IS ENCOURAGED TO TURN  OUT THE LIGHTS SO WE CAN ALL SEE THE NATURAL BEACON SHINING  DOWN FROM ABOVE UP.

>> Laura: FOR MILLIONS OF  YEARS THROUGHOUT OUR EVOLUTION AS A SPECIES, WE HAVE LOOKED  TO THE SAME NIGHT SKY.

WE HAVE TOLD STORIES,  NAVIGATED, WONDERED WHAT LIES BEYOND OUR OWN BEAUTIFUL  EARTH.

THAT SKY BELONGS TO ALL OF US,  NOT JUST A FEW.

>> Ricks:   SPACE IS SO BIG THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY THAT IT  MAKES THEM FEEL INSIGNIFICANT.

WE ARE VERY TINY IN THE GRAND  SCHEME OF THINGS BUT BEING ABLE TO LOOK OUT AND SEE SOME  OF THESE THINGS THAT ARE SO FAR AWAY, SO BIG, THE SCALE OF  THIS IS SO UNIMAGINABLE, AND YET WE ARE ABLE TO TAKE PART  IN THAT.

WE ARE PART OF THAT AND SO IN  ONE SENSE YOU FEEL SMALL AND IN ANOTHER SENSE YOU FEEL BIG.

IT IS KIND OF MAGIC.

>> Laura: TODAY WE CELEBRATE  DARK PLACES.

WE CALL THEM DARK SKY PARKS  AND THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE HOLDS STAR PARTIES TREATING  THE NIGHT SKY WITH THE SAME REFERENCE AS DEEP CANYONS OR  REMOTE MOUNTAIN TOPS.

WE CAN LOOK AT THE RING  NEBULA, AND THE RING NEBULA IS EXACTLY WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE.

IT IS A RING FLOATING IN THE SKY.

IT IS ALMOST A PERFECT RING AND WHAT IT IS, IT IS A DIEING  STAR.

>> Poskus: THE DAY THAT I  DISCOVERED THE THINGS THAT I CAN SEE THROUGH AN AMATEUR  TELESCOPE IS A DAY THAT I’LL REMEMBER UNTIL THE DAY I DIE.

I SAW OBJECTS THAT LOOKED LIKE DIAMONDS SCATTERED ON VELVET.

I SAW CLOUDS AND I SAW GALAXIES.

I SAW GALAXIES THREE OR 400 MILLION LIGHT YEARS AWAY.

AND THE IDEA OF THEN SHOWING THAT TO SOMEBODY AND SAYING,  THE LIGHT FROM THIS GALAXY LEFT THAT GALAXY LONG BEFORE  DINOSAURS EVEN WALKED THE EARTH, AND SEEING THEIR FACES  JUST GO WHOA, THAT IS AS COOL AS IT GETS.

YOU CAN’T BEAT THAT.

>> Laura: ISABELLE AND RICK  FROM BROWNSVILLE, TEXAS STOPPED AT THE CAPULIN STAR  PARTY WHILE ON VACATION.

>> WE ARE ALL STARDUST.

WE ARE ALL PART OF THE UNIVERSE, YOU KNOW.

SO IT IS JUST, YOU KNOW,  SOMETHING THAT YOU GAZE UPON ON A STEADY BASIS IF YOU’RE  OUT AND YOU WONDER, YOU KNOW.

>> IT IS JUST BEAUTIFUL AT  NIGHT.

>> Laura: OVER THE PAST  CENTURY WE HAVE STEADILY CHANGED OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH  THE SKY.

IN HIS NOVEL “CONTACT” KARL  SAGAN WROTE ABOUT COSMIC ISOLATIONISM, ON HOW, WITHOUT  EVEN NOTICING, MOST PEOPLE CUT THEMSELVES OFF FROM THE SKY.

WE LEARNED MORE ABOUT WHAT LIES BEYOND OUR OWN WORLD.

WE HAVE LOOKED DEEPER INTO SPACE, BUT OUR OWN SKY VIEW,  WE LIT IT UP, CONCEALED SO MUCH OF WHAT WE USED TO SEE.

>> Finn: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE LOSE IN TERMS OF OUR  CHILDREN PARTICULARLY IS WE ARE LIMITING THE SCOPE OF  THEIR IMAGINATION AND THEIR CURIOSITY.

AND THAT HAS, OF COURSE, TREMENDOUS REPERCUSSIONS FOR  THE FUTURE.

WE LOSE THE APPRECIATION THAT  WE PERSONALLY GET FROM LOOKING AT THE SKY.

IF THE SKY IS NOTHING BUT A GLOW ABOVE YOU FROM THE STREET  LIGHTS, THEN, THERE IS NOTHING TO SEE.

AND THERE IS NOTHING TO APPRECIATE.

>> Laura: FINN SAYS THERE ARE SIMPLE WAYS TO FIGHT LIGHT  POLLUTION.

TURN OFF OUTSIDE LIGHTS, LIGHT  CITIES MORE RESPONSIBLY, EVEN CLOSE YOUR CURTAINS AT NIGHT.

>> Finn: ONE OF THE NICE THINGS ABOUT LIGHT POLLUTION  IS THAT IT DOESN’T DESTROY THE NIGHT.

IT JUST HIDES IT.

SO, YOU CAN GET THE NIGHT BACK  LIKE THAT, IF YOU JUST TURN OFF THE LIGHTS.

THERE ARE NOT A LOT OF ENVIRONMENTAL THINGS WHERE THE  SOLUTION IS SO EASY.

>> Laura: CARL SAGAN WROTE  ABOUT HOW AT THE VERY MOMENT THAT HUMANS DISCOVERED THE  SCALE OF THE UNIVERSE AND FOUND THAT OUR MOST  UNCONSTRAINED FANCIES WERE, IN FACT, DWARFED BY THE TRUE  DIMENSIONS OF EVEN THE MILKY WAY GALAXY, WE TOOK STEPS THAT  ENSURED THAT OUR DESCENDANTS WOULD BE UNABLE TO SEE THE  STARS AT ALL BUT WE CAN CHANGE THAT.

WE CAN PROTECT THE SKIES ALL OF OUR ANCESTORS WATCHED.

WE CAN TURN OUT THE LIGHTS AND LOOK UP AND WONDER TOGETHER.

FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, AND  OUR LAND, I AM LAURA PASKUS.

>> Gene: IN CASE YOU MISSED  THE COVERAGE, THE ALBUQUERQUE CITY COUNCIL ON MONDAY  APPROVED A 200 MILLION DOLLAR INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN.

THERE WAS SOME PRETTY GOOD DEBATE, AS YOU MIGHT IMAGINE,  CONSIDERING HOW MANY THINGS HAVE NOT SEEN AN UPGRADE.

NOW HOUSING, ROADS, LIGHTING, IT WAS ALL IN THERE READY FOR  YOUR APPROVAL FOR A BOND VOTE THIS FALL, BUT IT WAS ONE ITEM  APPROVED THAT NEEDS ILLUMINATING AND EXPLANATION.

YOUR CITY COUNCIL HAS APPROVED FOUR MILLION DOLLARS TO MOVE A  MUSEUM.

THAT IS RIGHT.

THE UNSER RACING MUSEUM, CURRENTLY SITTING IN LOS  RANCHOS AND DRAWING LESS THAN 20,000 VISITORS A YEAR IN NO  SMALL PART BECAUSE OF ITS ABSURD LOCATION, WHICH BRINGS  ME TO THE HISTORICAL RUB HERE.

NOW, BACK IN 2005 WHEN THE  LOCATIONS FOR THE UNSER RACING MUSEUM WERE ANNOUNCED, THEN  MAYOR MARTIN CHAVEZ LOST HIS MIND, AND WITH GOOD REASON.

THE UNSERS REPRESENT NINE INDY 500 WINS, PIKES PEAK  VICTORIES, YOU NAME IT, THEY HAVE WON IT.

IF YOU’RE NEW HERE THE UNSER NAME BACK THEN WAS ALBUQUERQUE  AND MAYOR CHAVEZ KNEW THAT MUSEUM NEEDED TO BE IN THE  CITY PROPER FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.

NOW, HE EVEN HAD A BUILDING NEAR OLD TOWN EARMARKED FOR  IT, RIGHT SOUTH OF I-40, BUT SOME MEMBERS OF THE UNSER  FAMILY DIDN’T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT.

IT GOT UGLY BETWEEN THEM AND THE MAYOR AND IN THE SCRUM, A  MAJOR TOURIST DRAW WAS LEFT TO ROT ON A BARELY ACCESSIBLE  LOCATION.

NOW, YOU GET TO PAY FOUR  MILLION DOLLARS PLUS TO DO WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED IN  2005.

HERE IS A QUESTION.

IS THE UNSER FAMILY GOING TO KICK IN FINANCIALLY TO MAKE UP  FOR THEIR DECISION?

DON’T FORGET, THE UNSERS IN  THE PAST FLOATED THE IDEA OF MOVING THE WHOLE THING TO  INDIANAPOLIS WHICH MAKES SOME SENSE, BUT NOW NEBRASKA IS THE  THREAT.

BUT, IS CENTRAL AND UNSER, THE  NEW PROPOSED LOCATION, TRULY ANY BETTER FOR THE CITY THAN  MONTANO.

COUNCILOR PENA CALLS CENTRAL  AND UNSER, QUOTE, THE HEART OF THE CITY.

I WOULD DEBATE THAT.

NOW I AM A RACE CAR GUY AND  THE UNSER NAME MEANS SOMETHING TO ME PERSONALLY, BUT IN THIS  SEASON OF THE MUSEUM FOLLIES WE ARE CURRENTLY SUFFERING,  THIS IDEA NEEDS A YELLOW FLAG.

PERHAPS EVEN RED.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND FOR STAYING INFORMED AND  ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK,  IN FOCUS.

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